Slayed by Sunset: Homelander Vs. Makima - The Verdict
Before the Verdict
Homelander
About Those Statements
You probably knew about some already, and certainly read them in Homelander's Feats section. There are a variety of official claims regarding Homelander's stats that need to be addressed here, so let's go one-by-one.
1. Madelyn Stillwell - a Vought executive - says that every weapon on Earth has failed to kill Homelander
The one most powerscalers have probably heard of at least once. Death Battle previously used it to say Homelander could survive the Tsar Bomba, placing him at City level+ in durability. Since we know Homelander's stronger than the select few characters who can hurt him, this would upscale his AP as well.
On its own, there's really no support for Homelander being able to just face-tank any weapon on Earth. That's not even what Stillwell claims; she simply says they didn't work. Considering Homelander's superspeed, senses and flight, it's hard to imagine he'd just let something like a nuke hit him. Homelander himself was scared of Soldier Boy's condensed nuclear blasts, even when all they destroyed were single buildings. We also know that Homelander can be severely weakened and depowered by radiation, even with V-One.
Verdict: Inapplicable
2. Homelander says he can wipe cities off the map
This is said in-response to Starlight threatening to completely expose Homelander's true nature. This rebuttal isn't a bluff; its meant to establish that Homelander's winning to go scorched earth if he won't be loved. Plus, he mentions more specific targets like the Pentagon and specific weapons, so its clear he's seriously considering these ideas. Arrogant or not, its difficult to claim the narrative intent isn't for these threats to be real.
Case-closed, Homelander can destroy cities...over an unknown timeframe, making it impossible to calculate. That was easy.
Verdict: Unquantifiable
3. An artbook states he can level a city in minutes
How about that? This statement completely avoids the last one's issue, and you can't call it inconsistent given what Homelander himself says. This has been previously calculated as high as Town level+.
Problem is, these calcs makes some...questionable assumptions. Violent fragmentation has no clear basis (at least, no more than anything all the way to subatomic destruction), and the low-end uses a timeframe of 10 minutes. Without further context, our timeframe would be 59 minutes and 59 seconds, placing the feat at Multi-City Block level.
But truth be told, even this is disingenous. Homelander isn't causing parts of a city to shatter into pieces, he's laying waste to it gradually, and with superspeed. From his perspective, it could take hours or longer, since no one would be fast and powerful enough to pose any threat. With these variables in mind, nothing can really be gleaned from this.
Verdict: Unquantifiable
4. Stan Edgar claims Homelander has the power of a neutron bomb
Being Vought's former CEO and having all their knowledge about Homelander, there should be no question about the speaker's credibility here. Neutron bombs ranged in payload; the absolute weakest was 100 tons of TNT, but they more typically hovered around 1.1 to 2 Kilotons of TNT. So, does this mean Homelander is Small Town level?
Not quite.
Only about 40% of a neutron bomb's power goes to the explosive blast; the rest is released as heat and radiation. This knocks the previously mentioned numbers down to 40 Tons of TNT and 440 to 800 Tons of TNT. Still impressive, but at most Multi-City Block level+.
Verdict: Partially Applicable
Heat Vision Stuff
You'll occasionally see people claim that Homelander's projects real lasers from his eyes, which would make them Lightspeed. This is directly contradicted by them having concussive force and sometimes exploding on targets Homelander doesn't slice through. News flash: real world lasers don't do that.
Upon taking V-One, Homelander shoots his heat vision into the sky. Not worth mentioning on its own, but a tweet from Vought shows it being visible from Greece, despite Homelander being in NYC. This has been calculated to net Sub-Relativistic Speed and Country level AP using the most reasonable assumptions.
The calc is fine, but this Tweet being canon contradicts the lack of public outcry about the event in-universe. Even putting that aside, why would Vought show an actual image of the lasers rather than use a fake one? They're trying to debunk the event from being real in the first place.
Homelander's heat vision being lightspeed is simply false, and Vought's tweet is Invalid.
Ryan Goes Mr. Worldwide
In Season 5, Ryan flies from Russia to New York City. He got there late after seeing the text for him to go, with one being sent a second earlier. Taking this literally gets to 2% the speed of light!
With that said, you could easily argue that since this meeting was arranged earlier - with us seeing Ryan in Russia earlier - he started flying after a different text beforehand. We last see him in Russia about 14 minutes before, knocking the feat down to just-over Mach 21. The more straight-forward interpreation narratively is the 2% end, but is it consistent? That goes outside the scope of the feat itself, leading us to...
A-Train: You Can (not) Stop Him
Let's get a feat Death Battle themselves debunked out of the way. A-Train viewing Starlight's electric blasts in slow-motion would be extremely impressive...if not for his top speed while suffering severe heart issues being slower than electricity. This feat is a clear outlier, as Death Battle themselves said. And that was in their explanation for an episode sponsored by The Boys, so it being an outlier is basically canon.
But what about A-Train's most impressive - and redemptive - act of superspeed? Viewing a bullet as frozen in place would be at least 5% lightspeed, and potentially 52%! There are higher-ends for this feat using the muzzle flash, but they're inconsistent with fire and Homelander's heat vision moving faster.
This is easily the fastest thing we've seen in The Boys, but can Homelander scale? Short-answer: yes. He chases down A-Train right after, and is only slightly slower.
Where things get trickier is the dreaded c-word: consistency. A-Train's speed is consistently not that far above sound, so this scene contradicts most of the show. It does line-up surprisingly well with Ryan's flight speed, which Homelander would scale above. But that's just looking at the numbers: A-Train himself views Homelander in slow-motion, albeit while he's distracted.
Whether this feat is valid or not really depends on interpretation. Due to it not being concrete, Homelander's more reliable scaling will take priority.
The Nubians Nubin' All Over the Place
The Boys: Diabolical introduced us to Nubia, a Supe with the power to generate electricity. Another Supe, Groundhawk, dodges a blast of the stuff. Comparing his speed to the blast nets about Mach 3.64. If you've seen this calculated at Mach 600, that's using the speed of lightning. Nubia having sex with her (former) Supe husband Nubian Prince created a thunderstorm, leading people to believe it's lightning instead.
This sounds reasonable until you consider it'd be a massive outlier for a fairly unremarkable Supe like Groundhawk. He's certainly faster than the average guy, but this would place him above an A-Train suffering from heart failure. Why's that important? Because that A-Train was blitzing Supes by moving just a bit over the speed of sound. Really, the electricity dodge is likely still an Outlier, but a lightning dodge absolutely would be.
As for the thunderstorm itself, we have no timeframe on its creation, let alone a clear path for AP scaling. Thunderstorms are chain reactions after all. This feat is Inapplicable.
Black Hole's Butthole
In Gen V Season 2, a Supe student named Black Hole has a quantum singularity for an anus. The most reasonable calc for this statement gets to Multi-City Block level, but that clearly doesn't line up with its displayed power. When ejecting students with a large shockwave, rooms are left basically untouched. So depending on your view, either the calcs are contradicted or the statement is just wrong. Invalid either-way.
Makima
Should Makima Have More Devils and Fiends?
Most places will list Makima as having some more Devils and Fiends I didn't mention, or it being likely. It's certainly possible, but considering she didn't bother using them against Pochita, I don't think it matters. She had every reason to use her full arsenal there, and didn't even when literally dying.
The one exception is the Gun Devil, who was already dead. However, we don't know if she actually controlled it, just that the beast went inside Aki. You'd think she'd keep one of the most powerful Devils by far for her inevitable battle with the Chainsaw Devil, rather than having him die for no reason. Aki could have been possessed by any number of Devils to mess with Denji's head. I think it's more reasonable to assume the Gun Devil willingly went inside him (pause), with Makima then controlling the weaker Fiend.
Makima Bangs Pochita into Space
We know Makima can Bang so hard she makes Pochita bleed, but what about blasting him into space? Shouldn't that net some impressive numbers for speed or power?
If accomplished in one blast, sure. But it took a barrage cummuatively propelling him, with Pochita's distance travelled per shot being unclear. Not much else to say here other than it being Unquantifiable.
Typhoon Devil's Storm
Far above any other feat I've listed for Chainsaw Man is the Typhoon Devil creating a city-wide storm above Denji and Reze. Even the lowest assumption - which assumes Denji and Reze left Tokyo and went to Japan's smallest city, which is very unlikely - gets to about 10.5 Kilotons of TNT. Realistically, Reze would have just picked a random school in Tokyo; this is supported by a volume summary claiming the storm would "embroil the whole town". Final result: about 413 Kilotons of TNT.
Death Battle scaled this feat to Reze and Makima herself in their Death Battles, but is this valid? If you're looking at the movie, we see the massive hurricane and storm forming via Typhoon's physical rotation, but overtime. Looking at the manga, it happens entirely off-screen.
The only way for anyone to scale this is assuming more feared Devils would have greater power than the storm creation. But more powerful Devils are shown having less destructive attacks when going all-out, so this makes little sense. The most reasonable assumption is that is simply an ability unrelated to AP, and thus Inapplicable.
The Falling Devil Pulls a Graviton
In Chainsaw Man Part 2, the Falling Devil's control over gravity lets her reverse it across the world, lifting buildings, 2,000 people in Tokyo, and causing widespread disasters that plunge countries into poverty. There have been many attempts to assign a number to this, but they assume the whole world was affected all at once. This...is never actually stated.
Even if it were, there is no clear path for AP scaling, much like the Typhoon Devil's storm. Pretty clearly Inapplicable.
The Gun Devil
When it comes to Part 1 of Chainsaw Man, no character has the same combination of absurd feats and statements that this beast does. Travelling across and between countries while being nearly the size of a mountain results in a bevy of absurd numbers. With Makima having emerged victorious in their battle and combatting a Primal Fear - considered "far more dangerous" than the Gun Devil - it's common to scale her above its stats (with the exception of her physical strength and durability, as these played no role in either encounter). But is that the whole story?
First-off, let's analyze Makima's fight with the Gun Devil: she gets shot in the head, summons Snake and Punishment...then we cut away. No sign of how she won. She does react to the bullet as it's going through her skull, but that would be when its speed has gone down after travelling through the air and into flesh. Even assuming it was still at top speed...well, it would just be an Outlier at that point. The entirety of Tokyo's Devil Hunters couldn't keep track of the Gun Devil's movements when it first attacked, let alone since. This includes Makima herself, who is later outpaced by characters with no speed feats or other scaling comparable to the Gun Devil.
For Makima to scale, we must rely on Primal Fears being above the Gun Devil. This statement comes from a Fiend, and isn't contradicted by the other Fiends and Devils present. Sounds reasonable enough, but taking this at face-value creates major contradictions later on. Makima needed extensive prep-time and outside help to defeat the Gun Devil, yet couldn't even Control it at full power. By comparison, she severely wounded the Darkness Devil and managed to get some of the Special Division out of its way safely.
One of the Primal Devils is the Death Devil, considered the Ultimate Fear. But this is because she's impossible to kill - even by her own hand - and can cause others to instantly die. This would absolutely let her beat the Gun Devil in a fight, but does not grant any scaling to its stats.
The only other argument for Makima scaling to the Gun Devil is Pochita being the most feared Devil by Devil-kind. But this does not account for humanity's fears, which we know massively empowered the Gun Devil's already immense abilities after its rampage.
No matter how you slice it, scaling to the Gun Devil is Invalid.
The Verdict
(Credit to Westpion on Reddit)
With vastly different fighting styles and powers to examine, it's not immediately obvious how a fight between these two diabolical devils would go. To make that easier, let's break it down into 4 categories: Skill, Physical Stats, Offense, and Surviability.
Skill
Both Homelander and Makima are comfortable to sit behind a desk and control crowds, co-workers and competition. That's not laziness (usually); they put their charisma and cunning to work in getting results, including political leverage and prime conditions for violent plans. Both are still able to brawl with more seasoned fighters when needed, though their superpowers certainly play a part in that. Despite the similar broad strokes, there are some key differences here.
Even being generous with estimates of Makima's age, Homelander would have about 3 decades on her. His 18 years of experimentation by Vought - including combat versus other Supes - and 27 years as its #1 hero present more verifiable achievements than Makima's corporate climb. Surprisingly, the difference is most clear in their manipulations. Not only did Homelander maintain his persona for far longer, but he kept it up while constantly engaging with the media, crowds, and working in the field. Makima wasn't obliged to 24/7 media exposure, especially since Chainsaw Man takes place prior to the Digital Age. Her cold, antisocial inside was called out by several Devil Hunters, just not enough for any action to be mounted against her. When Homelander faced far more damning accusations and undeniable evidence, he consistently spun the narrative back in his favor.
This isn't to say Makima couldn't pull off the same sort of tricks, but she'd likely rely more on her typical failsafes: looks and actual mind control. Her most impressive schemes happened off-screen and/or with the aid of these tools, plus plenty of time to prepare. To her credit, this in a more hostile world; Devil Hunters aren't playing pretend like most of Vought's so-called heroes. Makima certainly battled more varied opponents, and that included ones actually stronger than her. Homelander has never faced someone he couldn't fairly easily overpower head-to-head, only struggling when dogpiled by some of the world's strongest. This is very explicitly to do with his powers rather than true combat prowess.
Ultimately, while Homelander has more total experience and showcases of cunning, neither are that relevant in a 1-on-1 battle. The Horseman is by no means lacking in experience and intelligence, all while being perfectly comfortable punching above her weight class, giving her the edge.
Skill
So Makima wins in brains, but how about brawn? Let's see how each fighter fares in
Physical Stats
Comparing feats...this one's no-contest. Makima can punch holes in people and potentially tanked a rocket launcher explosion; Homelander tears people apart and survived an exploding chemical plant. Even accounting for him not being at the epicenter, he still shrugged off over 20.5 Tons of TNT to the face. That's over 500,000 times more powerful than your average rocket launcher. Makima has no particularly notable speed feats; Homelander flew to space and back in less than 3 seconds. That's over Mach 222, and nearly 9,890 times faster than your average person.
Luckily for Makima, that isn't the whole story. Fighting Pochita may not result in much for direct feats, but it does wonders for scaling. She's well-above Reze, who stopped the Violence Fiend's cratering kick, whick packed over 95 Tons of pressure. Makima is superior to Quanxi, who sliced 49 people while invisible to them at Mach 15.77, and - with the aid of her Devil Hunter suit - survived getting kicked through 4 skyscrapers. This would generate over...8.26 Tons of TNT. Still about 2.4 times weaker than what Homelander can shrug off no problem. And keep in-mind, this kick pierced through both Quanxi and her suit. The speed comparison is even worse: Homelander is over 14x faster.
And this is being disingenous, since we haven't brought in Homelander's scaling and statements yet. He believes in lifting a Boeing 747, backed up by Stormfront being able to "fling" one. A Boeing weighs at least 162.39 Tons, and throwing one likely places the far weaker Stormfront at over 1,452 Tons. Homelander grabbing and ripping Makima apart is plenty doable. For AP and durability, Homelander is said to have the power of a neutron bomb. Being extremely conservative, this places him at 40 Tons of TNT, making his minimal advantage in both 4.8 times. But given the explosive blast standard neutron bombs made, it's more likely he's at 440 - 800 Tons of TNT, about 53 to 97 times greater.
You can also push his speed higher, though not without good counterarguments. At best, he would be about 28,870 times faster, but this is an utmost high-end. I'll be sticking with the more reliable 14x speed difference.
Even so, it should be clear by now that Makima's fighting an uphill battle on a physical level. At absolute worst, Homelander is many times faster with a notable strength and durability advantage. But it's a lot more realistic for him to be so much stronger that she can't contend him with physically at all. Stats go to the Homelander!
Physical Stats
If the previous two categories were all this fight came down to...well, I wouldn't be making this prediction. Luckily for Makima, she's got a lot more ways to kill people than brute force. But is that enough to make up the difference? Let's find out with...
Offense
As previously discussed, Homelander is more than strong enough to tear Makima apart. Needless to say, his heat vision would do the same. That's kinda par for the course in his world. What isn't is an opponent who, while outmatched in strength, can actually dish out even more power than him!
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Makima's Bangs made the Chainsaw Devil bleed when blasting him into space, who was basically unharmed while throwing his heart from orbit back to ground level. That's roughly 9,340 Tons of TNT, over 11x stronger than Homelander's absolute best. Like Homelander's heat vision, it's often a go-to move for her, and would be more than enough to cripple or even kill him with one blow. Additionally, Makima's telekinesis could create severe hemorrhaging in her opponent's body, delievering a similar level of damage.
Furthemore, Makima's got numerous ways to bypass durability outright. These include:
- The Shark Fiend swimming inside Homelander for some telefrag-esque shenanigans
- The Zombie Devil turning Homelander into a zombie
- The Spider Devil sending people to Hell
- The Angel Devil's weapons stealing the lifeforce of their targets
- The heat of Reze's explosions
- Any Devil or Fiend posessing Homelander
- Just controlling Homelander and calling it a day
It's also worth mentioning that the Snake Devil carrying the Punishment Devil would place its Lifting Strength at nearly 2,550 Tons, and its raw power at about 444 Tons of TNT. That's 11x greater than Homelander's low-end, slightly stronger than Homelander's mid-end, and less than 2x his highest-end and Lifting Strength.
Even accounting for Homelander's speed advantage, Makima has many more ways to win this fight. Considering Homelander's arrogance and more...unique mental weaknesses, it's entirely possible he'd be left wide-open for these attacks. After all, it's happened against normal people, let alone a powerful Devil like Makima.
With greater power and variety, Makima regains the lead with Offense!
Offense
Both contestants have clear paths to victory, but what about the final roadblocks? It's time for our final category:
Defense
On Homelander's end, his most obvious defenses are ones we've already discussed: durability and speed. Makima's physical attacks are no-issue, and the same goes for nearly all her forces. Even if the Snake Devil has a slight edge over Homelander in strength and durability, he's way faster. The Snake Devil doesn't scale to Quanxi; at best it compares to the Angel Devil blocking pistol shots at about Mach 4.2. Homelander is over 53x faster than it, along with most of Makima's Devils. He outclasses her other Fiends and Devil Hunters by an even greater amount.
Since Makima's minions with insta-win options don't even scale to Quanxi's speed, the chances any land their one-shot moves is vanishingly slim. Plus, Homelander surviving disintegrating heat as a child and resisting possession means two of these ideal win-cons just wouldn't work anyway.
Makima's telekinesis is a bigger concern; he can't just shrug it off. He'd certainly be able to dodge the blast and know its coming with super-hearing, but may decide to just try and tank it. That won't go well. Internal attacks from Makima have zero tell. The death ritual would take way too long to set up, but she doesn't even need it.
Last but certainly not least is The Control Devil's ultimate ability. Does Homelander have a counter?
What isn't is Soldier Boy staving off Mindstorm's mental attack; we've seen him fully control people. Homelander should have a similar - if not greater - resistance, so he would intially resist Makima's trump card.
Initially.
Soldier Boy was still wary of Mindstorm, taking extra precautions to avoid his mental shenanigans. Even ignoring that, Makima could just re-apply control like she did to Angel. That guy fully broke out of her ability before being put under permanently.
So while Homelander is safe from most of Makima's options, her main two are still extremely dangerous to him. They're also ones he's never had to face before; this is for someone very arrogant to begin with.
Makima certainly has all the tools needed to win, but we still have to examine how she fares against Homelander's offense. This is comparatively straight-forward to discuss, since all Homelander has is fisticuffs and heat vision.
Considering the aforementioned gap in stats, Makima trying to avoid or block them - either by herself or with the Special Division - is a no-go. Homelander's flight and enhanced senses ensure he wouldn't lose track of her even with a brief distraction, which is unlikely to begin with. You might think Makima's Devil Hunter suit would help, but it can't stand up to his sheer force alone. Despite being fireproof, that wouldn't matter either. Remember, Homelander could burn Soldier Boy, who withstood oxy-aceltyene flames. Those clock in at roughly 5,400 degrees, much hotter than typical fire.
But being torn apart isn't anything new for Makima, all thanks to her Devil Contract with the Prime Minister of Japan. It ensures that wounds which would kill Homelander - or his usual victims - several times over are quickly healed. Limb-loss and decapitation are healed in moments from her perspective, faster when hooked onto a minion. More extensive and continous damage like bisection and major organ destruction takes longer, but is still perfectly doable. Getting sliced to pieces and cooked was enough to kill her though.
If you're paying attention, you've noticed a few issues.
Homelander is over 14x faster than Makima's regeneration, several to hundreds of times stronger, and has heat vision to slice and burn.
His usual laser to the head would immediately destroy her brain, which she hasn't shown the ability to come back from. He's done that to people's whole bodies too, which is explicitly several steps beyond what Makima can successfuly transfer. Alternatively, Makima being ripped to pieces would force her to wait and heal. Homelander will sense that happening, then double-tap with heat vision or simple brute force. If it doesn't work the second time, go for a third, fourth, etc. until she stops regenerating.
To be blunt, the simple force of Homelander hitting Makima would render her unable to fight back, whether it kills her or not.
So...where does that leave us? Both have win-cons, so it's a tie, right?
Not so fast. Like, seriously, that's the issue for Makima.
Both her win-cons rely on Homelander letting himself get hit before he does...basically anything. That's possible, but the same goes for Makima doing the exact same thing. What's the difference, then? Well, her being way slower means the chances she acts first are a lot smaller. The fact that Homelander even has some counterplay to her win-cons doesn't help either. Bang isn't a guranteed kill, and if he breaks out of control, she's unlikely to get a second chance unless he's really disoriented.
It might come as a shock given Makima's ridiculous immortality, but Homelander takes the final edge in Defense!
Defense
Summary
Homelander
Starlight lied to you just now. She did. I don't make mistakes. I'm not "just like the rest of you". I'm stronger. I'm smarter. I'm better! I AM BETTER!
Advantages
- More experienced and intelligent...
- Far stronger, tougher and faster
- Flight and senses grant greater control over the battlefield
- The stat gap and heat vision easily bypass all of Makima's defenses
- Antony Starr
- Way better Death Battle...
Disadvantages
- ...but not as skilled in combat
- Instability leads him to being less efficient and more susceptible to manipulation
- Significantly weaker than Makima's telekinesis and potentially the Snake Devil
- Not nearly as versatile
- Regeneration doesn't hold a candle to Makima's healing
- At a numbers disadvantage if Makima summons any Devils
- ...but it was one of the biggest stomps ever 💀
Makima
A corpse is talking.
Advantages
- Generally more skilled in a head-to-head fight
- Far more versatile
- Telekinesis is significantly more powerful than Homelander, enough to potentially one-shot him
- Healing options are vastly superior
- Numerous ways to bypass Homelander's durability...
- The Snake Devil has superior lifting strength and arguably AP than Homelander...
- Massive numbers advantage with her legion...
- Better person (I guess)
- Part 1
- Wasn't in Part 2...
Disadvantages
- Outclassed in overall experience and intelligence
- Inferior senses and mobility
- Completely outclassed in all physical stats
- ...but they all have notable barriers to being pulled off
- ...but it's even slower than Makima herself, and still weaker than Homelander's high-end
- ...who either won't get summoned or pose little challenge
- Getting low-diffed in a 3/10 Death Battle
- ...but still got retconned out of reality 💀
Conclusion
Despite the scoreboard being tied up and Makima having more ways to pull off a win here, this matchup is a textbook example of quality beating quantity.
Power and strategy are great for her to have, but only useful with the time and security to exercise them. Against an opponent many times stronger, tougher and faster, the window for victory is vanishingly thin. The difference in physical stats isn't impossible for Makima to work around, but it's Homelander's match to lose.
You might think that his ego would make that pretty likely, but that goes both ways. Makima's own god complex and usually uncounterable immortality made her think she was invincible, and it canonically cost her. The same goes for Homelander, but with his speed advantage and more reliable win-cons, he has two decisive edges in landing a killing blow first. All of Makima's usual trump cards simply lack the speed and sustainability to keep her going against an opponent this immediately lethal.
The Control Devil thought she'd bring it home, and really, she wasn't wrong. John made sure she's landin' straight back to Hell!
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